Discussion 4.2

[Ashley Lyons]

Directions: STEP 1- Answer the following questions and explain why you feel the way you do: Are all Tier 3 needs IEP worthy? How would you define “the messy middle”? Can a Tier 2 (targeted) need be IEP worthy? In what way can a child who is eligible for special education have Tier 1 needs? STEP 2- Respond to at least one colleague’s posting. 

 

[Dawn Fagenstrom]

Are all Tier 3 needs IEP worthy? I don’t think so. While learners in this Tier need the most support and remediation, I don’t feel that the need is always IEP worthy. Possibly for one reason or another there is one piece that the student is missing and when they have that part it will all come together. Possibly the instruction didn’t meet the child’s needs and therefore a different level or instruction or instructor is needed. Possibly there could be new issues at home influencing the learners progress. Culture and language could also be impacting the students’ learning. So, no not all Tier 3 needs are IEP worthy.

How would you define “the messy middle”? To me the messy middle the area where the teacher and/or the team recognizes that a learner is struggling but don’t know exactly what the issue is or how to address it. In the messy middle the teacher needs to identify the need then attempt different methods, materials, teaching techniques, or teachers to address that need(s). I don’t feel that if the learner is in the second tier they are necessarily in the messy section. They may be in the second tier and be working on their needs to build their skills.

Can a Tier 2 (targeted) need be IEP worthy? The reading and information that I have gathered indicates that at Tier 2 is not SPED. However, I think that a Tier 2 need could be IEP worthy. The student may continually struggle with a skill and this skill is necessary for development into other areas. When interventions are unsuccessful other means of support should be investigated and it may be determined that the need is having an adverse impact on his access, participation, and progress and therefore would then become IEP worthy.

Explain why you feel the way you do: In what way can a child who is eligible for special education have Tier 1 needs? My first thought is that the SPED issues are not in Tier I but elsewhere in the triangle. My next thought is that the student has the capacity to learn but there are other issues that negatively influence the students’ ability to learn. Perhaps the child has behavioral issues that affect his learning and are IEP worthy. Perhaps the child struggles applying his skills in new situations (generalizing) and therefore creates a SPED need. Possibly the child has a language issue and it takes longer for him to process language and therefore creates a stronger need. The learner may struggle with responding within a reasonable time period and may require supports for completing tasks. There are a number of factors that could influence a child’s learning in a negative way leaving him to struggle without interventions. The child may be working at the Tier 1 level because of the SPED supports and without them would not be in the Tier 1 range.

[OLENA KYSELOVA]

Are all Tier 3 needs IEP worthy? My answer would be ”No”. I like the idea that the child is a triangle. I agree that students have a range of skills that varies and presented as relative strengths and weaknesses, and we all learn differently. There are visual learners, auditory learners and kinesthetic learners in the classroom. And before taking about disability, the student support team needs to identify the student’s areas of strengths and concerns, and evaluate previous instruction and materials provided for the student. Some children need instructional adjustments while learning new material. It takes them a little longer than others to master the skills. However, it is not a special education issue and they do not require specially designed instructions. They need adjustments and accommodations (i.e., additional time, reteaching, extra practice, small groups) to support their learning in the regular education classroom.

When working with students, I often have situations that I feel that I do not have a crystal ball in determining how the student will respond to instructions. Some students have attentional problems or their processing speed is low. These students present a challenge in the classroom as they require a lot of extra support, attention and re-teaching from the teacher. They are falling behind, but not significantly behind, and they are still learning. I would refer to these situations as “the messy middle”.

I consider a Tier 2 (targeted) need as a not IEP worthy need. Tier 2 needs may be addressed with interventions in general education classroom. If a student struggles academically and have Tier 2 needs, he or she will benefit from Zig-Zag process to work on the targeted skills in small group of 4 – 7 students. Some students with Tier 2 needs have weaknesses in the area of working memory, and I found that working with parents and providing materials to preview chapters and topics at home may help these students be successful in the classroom. Additionally, kids learn from other students, as well. Having access to direct instructions, access to high quality instruction and typically developed peers – role models in the classroom is a recipe for success.

I do believe that special education students may have Tier 1 needs, as many of them may have different range of skills even in one subject area. Based on my observation, teachers implementing best practices, want these students participate in general education activities and be a part of their classroom. If students are social but struggle in expressing frustration appropriately, they should be included in general ed classrooms to generalize and apply learned coping and self-regulation strategies during social interaction with peers. Or, for example, students with other health impairment (ADHD) who have average or high cognitive abilities, will benefit from teacher’s direct instructions in the general education classroom. If they struggle with study skills, teachers could modify their worksheets or allow them to complete assignments in the resource room, away from distractions. Students can also work on team projects with general education peers; however, their assignments should be modified in accordance with the IEP. Teachers should identify special education students Tier 1 needs and address it in the least restrictive environment.

[Daniel Kaasa]

Assigned comment on a a colleague’s posting for Module 4.2

Hi Olena,

I really like your comparison of the “messy middle” to the statement that educators don’t have a crystal ball. We don’t have all of the answers to all of the challenges that our students present. We can just stay focused on what we identify as achievable outcomes for them and then look for approaches that might work.

I agree with most of your responses to Ashley’s questions. However, I think that since every child is a triangle, every child may have skills needing responses at different intensities. Although I understand your reasoning, it is the Team process that determines IEP worthy priorities. I think this may include skills that would fall in that second tier of the instructional model. If an identified need can be met with just adding supports that target a desired outcome, then we may be determining a less specialized approach to teaching the child for success in that area. The best practices that you mention include trusting in the Team process. In all actuality our responses are both correct, because of the individualized nature of our efforts. Maybe we just were considering Dr. K P-F’s question: “What is the what?”

[OLENA KYSELOVA]

Hi Dawn,
I agree with you that that not all Tier 3 needs are IEP worthy. I like how you address the environmental, cultural and language factors that should be ruled out prior to identifying students for special education. These factors significantly affect students’ learning and students’ needs should be addressed with high quality interventions. I do believe that collaboration between general and special education teachers by teaming, problem solving, co-teaching, and grouping students differently for different activities is critical in addressing students’ individual needs and helping them succeed at school.

[Dawn Fagenstrom]

HI Olena

I agree with you. Students that have the cognitive skills are often included and the teachers prefer to have them in their classrooms with them receiving their instruction. Having the support of the SPED dept. for behavior plans, assignments modifications and adaptions are often the key to their success in the classroom. The social skills that they observe and develop in the general classroom are hard to recreate in the resource room. I am appreciating the concept of working with a students strengths as we move through this class and appreciate your thoughts on using their strengths as building blocks.

[Daniel Kaasa]

Module 4.2 Assignment

I do not believe that all Tier 3 needs are IEP worthy. This is especially true for the younger child, as they may just not yet be at a developmental level to learn the full complexity of the skill. Additionally they may not have had the opportunity to develop foundation skills because of the experiences they have had before starting school. There are those children who have a clearly identifiable disability and there education should be guided by an IEP. But there will also be those children who just need the increase in intensity and frequency of instruction to achieve the desired outcomes.

The “messy middle” is an interesting descriptor. As Dr. K P-F is using it, I would define it as that point in the educational setting where we are looking at a child who is struggling. We know that there are skills they are not developing at the same level as many of their peers, but we need to figure out why. We identify the specific needs areas and we look at ways to focus in on the components of teaching that child in a way that he/she can be successful. Although the path we will follow is not clear cut, we keep focused on the desired outcome. As educators we may struggle with the approaches that will work, but we keep our teaching set on individualizing instruction. When one effort doesn’t work we try another way. The process can get messy and complicated and confused, but if the student achieves and succeeds we have reached a target.

A Tier 2 need can be IEP worthy, in my opinion. If we have provided quality instruction and have nonetheless identified that the student has a disability that significantly impacts their educational success we are mandated to choose the IEP model.. Needs are identified and prioritized. A need may not require the level of instruction that would reach a Tier 3 model, but the student may just require a higher level of support that will move learning from its stalled status. By setting the skill as worthy of an IEP goal, we will carefully consider our instructional approaches and collect data to document the success of that instruction.

[Andrea Colvin]

Hi Daniel,

I like your definition of the “messy middle.” It can be so challenging to know how to help students who are struggling. I like how you said that we should focus on the specific needs and areas and keep in mind where we want them to go, or the desired outcome. It can feel like we are bushwhacking our way to find that answer, but I think that if we keep in the end in sight, we can try different approaches to help the student be successful and reach the target.

[Daniel Kaasa]

Module 4.2 Assignment, Part II
I failed to address the final question before submitting my comments 🙂

I child who is eligible for special education because of an identified disability will have a wide range of skills and needs. Therefore, some of their instruction will follow the Tier 1 model of working on the common outcomes expected of all children at their age/grade level. Guided by our state standards, they will need to work on the same skills as their peers. The level of intensity of instruction will be unique to each child and their abilities. A child who struggles with reading may excel in math and require minimal instructional supports even though they have an Individual Education Plan.

[Melinda Jones]

Are all Tier 3 needs IEP worthy?
Not necessarily. All children will demonstrate needs at all Tiers from time to time, because they are complex, growing, changing, developing beings. But there may be a time when a child’s progress is stalled, the student is struggling, and the outcome of the skill that they are struggling with is foundational to learning. It is at these times that teachers often contact their team member from special education. They have identified a problem with a child who is not demonstrating their expected outcome despite individualized support. I often hear “He just doesn’t get it – I think he needs an IEP”. While it can be time consuming, the needed response is to collaborate with the teaching team to re-evaluate their data. Is the outcome part of a pattern or is it limited? Is there a piece missing somewhere in the learning process (looking at Kristie’s zig-zag process) that needs some re-teaching, support, and simple scaffolding? Often the issue is challenging behavior. Social skills and self-regulation skills may need an individualized approach that is sensitive to the child’s experiences beyond the classroom that may include trauma, cultural differences, language acquisition, and more. In these case’s the individualized service may require a broader team of support that is not related to IEP services (family, counselors, social workers, etc.). But even with less complex issues there will be times that any child might need individualized instruction in an expected outcome, but does not have a disability/delay that requires an IEP.

How would you define “the messy middle”?
The messy middle describes those instances when a child seems to move in and out of the need for individual to targeted to universal instruction, but does not seem to land consistently in any one place. The student I described in the 4.1 discussion board was such a child. Due to ongoing stressors and changes in his environment outside of school, his progress was a bit like the ups and downs of a rollercoaster. The team had to remain very consistent. Just when the teacher thought he was “on track” behaviorally he might have a stressful start to his day and come to school ready to test and see if the people at school really meant what they said and if they could be trusted. Messy describes the process, and the team had to work together consistently to determine that while many days required Tier 3 instruction – this was still not a child needing an IEP. He may in the future if the challenges he experiences continue, and he is not able to make progress in the skills that he needs to build his resilience.

Can a Tier 2 (targeted) need be IEP worthy?
All children are “triangles”, including children with disabilities/delays. All children have strengths and needs. A student eligible for special education may have the strengths to be able to participate in targeted instruction groups in their blended classroom, but may have a need within that group that requires specialized instruction to address the outcome. This child may really benefit from receiving that IEP worthy support so that they can fully participate with their peers in that group setting.

In what way can a child who is eligible for special education have Tier 1 needs? 
All children have strengths, and the majority of children who are eligible for special education have the ability to participate full and make progress in some areas of their school day. These Tier I needs may be supported with accommodations or modifications, but I still consider a child receiving these as a child fully participating as a child with the same universal needs as their peers

[Naomi Buck]

Hi Melinda,
I really appreciated reading your response- especially to the first and second questions. You provided a great example of how student’s needs are ever changing and may require a great deal of intervention even though the cause maybe an external factor and not a disability. I liked your comment, “All children will demonstrate needs at all Tiers from time to time, because they are complex, growing, changing, developing beings.” And your reminder that, though perhaps “He just doesn’t get it,” it is important to go back to the data to examine the possible causes and patterns.

[Melinda Jones]

Response to Daniel:

I really appreciated your statement that “they may not have had the opportunity to develop foundation skills because of the experiences they have had before starting school”. You are right on target! Our expectations of what a child “brings” to preschool can help or hinder the decisions about what to teach. The idea that Tier 3 addresses foundational skills is only one part of the criteria. Determining what is lack of exposure vs disability/delay takes time and great care as the teacher identifies what each student is in need of and then diligently instructs through play, measuring progress along the way. And some children will need more or less time to demonstrate that they are able to make progress toward expected outcomes. I often think that most preschool teachers live IN the messy middle!

[Andrea Colvin]

Are all Tier 3 needs IEP worthy?
I don’t think all Tier 3 needs are IEP worthy. I like thinking about the child as a triangle and how moving between the Tiers is a fluid thing. I think there could be times in a child’s life where he is struggling and needs Tier 3 support in a certain area, I don’t’ think that this necessarily means that he has a disability and needs an IEP. This is especially true if he responds to the intervention and no longer needs that amount of support. I do think that students who have IEP’s often need Tier 3 support in certain areas to allow them access and participation and meet their needs in specific areas.

How would you define “the messy middle”?
I would define the “messy middle” as a student who has an area of struggle. This student is falling behind in a certain aspect and the teacher has tried many interventions, but isn’t seeing growth. I think the messy middle is when we need to collaborate with our peers and really dive into the questions about why the child has stalled. We can help think of solutions, interventions, supports, and ways to collect data on this student to see if they are working or not.

Can a Tier 2 (targeted) need be IEP worthy?
I do think that Tier 2 can be IEP worthy, but I think that the child must have other needs to make it an area that is IEP worthy. I think that if a student only has one area of struggle and they fall in Tier 2 for that particular area, it would not necessarily be IEP worthy. I think that a student who has an IEP could receive instruction in a general education class with Tier 2 needs and have specific accommodations and modifications to her curriculum so that she can access the material.

In what way can a child who is eligible for special education have Tier 1 needs?
I think that all children have Tier 1 needs, but our students who are eligible for special education also need the layers of Tier 2 and 3 needs. I think that each student has different needs in certain areas and each student is a triangle with strengths and struggles within that triangle.

[Naomi Buck]

Are all Tier 3 needs IEP worthy?
No- I do not feel that all tier 3 needs are IEP worthy. A Tier 3 need may only be a concern because the child is missing a prerequisite or foundational skill. That may be due to a disability, but it also may be due to a lack of exposure or a lack of quality education and scaffolding for the skill. Tier 3 needs will require interventions and teaching of specific skills, but when that is provided, if the student responds quickly, then it would indicate that the need is not the result of a disability, and thus, not “IEP worthy.” It is impossible to tell if the need is “IEP worthy” until interventions are tried.

How would you define “the messy middle”?
“The messy middle” as I understand it refers to a situation where a student is struggling, but teachers have not yet identified the cause of the struggle or what can be done to address it. This is the intervention stage where data is being gathered and discussed and a first intervention strategy might be attempted and the results evaluated. After this stage, a team will have more valuable data that can be used to determine possible causes of the student’s struggles and revise the intervention plan or move forward with an IEP referral.

Can a Tier 2 (targeted) need be IEP worthy?
It depends on whether the need is the result of an identified disability or not. By definition of tier 2 (intervention for students whose learning has stalled in an area), the student should respond positively to general education interventions at a tier 2 level. Though a student could qualify for special education services due to a need at this level, it doesn’t mean that they should. I would almost never want to label a student with an IEP if their needs could be met without it. That said, if a student already qualifies for an IEP (for example through OHI), and they are struggling with a tier 2 skill as a result of that disability that limits their participation in the general education setting, then I would consider the need to be “IEP worthy.”

In what way can a child who is eligible for special education have Tier 1 needs?
Any child can have tier 1 needs, whether they have an IEP or not. For example, children who qualify for special education services in reading may have needs in math that can be met through tier 1 interventions rather than be added to the IEP. Another example might be a student who receives special education services for speech articulation, might also struggle with expressive language and vocabulary usage- but this need may be due to lack of exposure rather than a disability. In this case, the student may receive tier 1 interventions to address some needs and special education services to address others. If student needs can be met through tier 1 interventions, then the need is probably not due to the disability itself. However, I do not think that a student who only has tier 1 needs would be eligible for an IEP.

[Mark Dinelt]

Mark Dinelt 5/8/2019

• STEP 1- Answer the following questions and explain why you feel the way you do:
•
• Are all Tier 3 needs IEP worthy? Definitely not. Hopefully, we try a variety of strategies, if needed, to provide enough assistance to help a student catch up or get close to expected standards for most students. If it was hopeless and we knew it, we wouldn’t have a tier 3 (presumably). Many, perhaps most students, will improve, if for no other reason than that they have more individualized attention. Specialized help, looking at ways to increase understanding for particular concepts, should produce results for more students.
•
• How would you define “the messy middle”? There are some students who tend to lag behind in one or more areas from their peers. Often they need more processing time which slows their progress but does not really impact their ability to pick up new skills, unless they are continuously left behind without extra help, specifically, time to process and work through, perhaps with extra practice. Some students may have “processing” issues with certain concepts which may hold them back at times but not in general. And sometimes, personal issues impact their ability to process new information at that time under normal classroom conditions. Any number of issues can affect a student’s progress at different times and it’s not always easy to tease out what is happening when a student is having difficulty.
•
• Can a Tier 2 (targeted) need be IEP worthy? It may be but without trying more typical means of providing assistance, it is not possible to establish that a Tier 2 need is IEP worthy without a documented history of problems in a particular area that has been properly addressed in the past.
•
• In what way can a child who is eligible for special education have Tier 1 needs? Abilities in different areas (even in related areas, such reading; vocabulary, fluency, comprehension, etc). Eligible for service in 1 or more areas certainly does not mean that services for all areas are needed. I have had a number of students who have large vocabularies but read so slowly that it seems to impact their comprehension of material read. Others read quite fluently and still comprehension problems (especially true for many “autistic” students.

STEP 2- Respond to at least one colleague’s posting.
Dawn Fagenstrom – Great observations about Tier 3. I especially appreciated her observations on culture and language which are obviously issues for reading skills. I also like her observation that not all students in the middle are “messy”. I agree that we don’t always know why a learner is struggling and we certainly need to put in some effort to find out. Good observations on Tier 2 needs. Definitely need to see over time if a need persists and effects access, participation or progress. I especially appreciated her views on sped. Supports that may mask a student’s struggle. I have faced this issue a number of times with students who were “threatened” with loss of services because they were too successful, believing that they would suffer greatly if their supports were withdrawn.

[Beth Craig]

Are all Tier 3 needs IEP worthy? My answer would be, ”No”. I agree that students have a wide range of skills which include their strengths and weaknesses. The real key is to prioritize their abilities and decide what are the underlying skills that are missing or that they need in order to build upon to gain new skills or to make progress in and increase the skills they already have.
I feel that Tier 2 needs are usually an IEP worthy need and most often, Tier 2 needs are easily addressed with interventions in “regular” settings, but there are exceptions. A need may not require the level of instruction that would reach Tier 3, but the child may simply need more support to help them make progress again in that skill. Maybe they have stalled or maybe they are having difficulty generalizing the skill into other areas or settings. By choosing and prioritizing that the skill is worthy of an IEP goal, the teacher would be collecting and revisiting the data and monitoring the success of that instruction and supports and would then be able to better identify if the skill truly is IEP worthy or not.

[LuEmma Rowland]

Are all Tier 3 needs IEP worthy?

I don’t feel like all Tier 3 needs are IEP worthy. As Kristie mentioned, every child is a triangle which to me means that every child learns differently, at different rates, different progressions, and different outcomes. At times, some students need supports and other times they don’t need support at all. In my own classroom, I often see students who have “splinter skills” which mean they have some really high skills and some really low skills in one developmental area. It doesn’t necessarily mean they need an IEP but they have missed some steps of development between the easy to the hard skills. These needs are not always IEP worthy but can be addressed through easy classroom modifications, accommodations, and specific teaching moments. After a certain amount of time, these skills can become IEP worthy but often are solved with a little extra purposeful planning within the classroom environment and activities.

How would you define “the messy middle”?

I would define “the messy middle” as a child’s educational performance landing in the different tiers of support but not staying consistent. Each student learns in their own way, their own pace, and their own style. The teacher knows the student has a need but not quite sure what the actual need is… whether they need a new accommodation, modification, or visual support. Or if materials need to be presented differently in order to better reach the student’s learning style. It’s “messy” because it doesn’t exactly mean that the student’s need is IEP worthy but it also doesn’t mean that they don’t need support.

Can a Tier 2 (targeted) need be IEP worthy?

I believe that a tier 2 need can be IEP worthy if it stems from a child’s identified disability. I think it’s important to determine the “why” behind the need before writing an IEP goal/objective. Most of the time, a tier 2 need can be addressed in the classroom with appropriate direct instruction, classroom modifications/accommodations, or intentional teaching moment.

In what ways can a child who is eligible for special education have Tier 1 needs? 

A child who is eligible for special education can have tier 1 needs because they have different abilities, strengths, and weaknesses hence the saying “that all children are a triangle”. For example: At times a student’s behavior may impact their ability to concentrate or learn academic materials making them have tier 1 needs in reading or math. With the correct modification behavior skills decrease as their academic skills increase.

[LuEmma Rowland]

Peer Response to Melinda:

I loved reading your answer to the first question. You mentioned you often hear “he just doesn’t get it – I think he needs an IEP”. As I am also a CARE team teacher, I often hear this same statement. It’s always seems to be the kids fault… not let’s consider a different approach, a different modification, a different schedule, a different classroom arraignment. There are always LOTS of other factors that go into the equation and at times not all needs are IEP worthy as some general education teachers think they are. I often like to rephrase this question and ask “Why doesn’t he get it?” and lead with questions like “What is he struggling with? What strategies have you tried? What accommodations/modifications have you tried? Are their new ones we can implement? Can we make a visual to better help deliver the content? Is there a skill that’s missing that we can address?

[Diane George]

STEP 1- Answer the following questions and explain why you feel the way you do.

Are all Tier 3 needs IEP worthy?

I don’t believe that all Tier 3 needs are IEP worthy. It depends on the area and the degree to which the child is struggling. If it is one component of a skill (the child can’t seem to remember the multiplication facts – i.e. 7s and 8s) but understands how to compute multi-digit math problems, then I would not regard that as a need that is IEP worthy. Most students/children demonstrate strengths in certain areas and needs in other areas. It doesn’t mean that they all need an IEP goal. It may require a little extra attention, some re-teaching, an accommodation or modification, or a different approach to teaching in order for the child to understand and master the skill.

How would you define “the messy middle”?

I just had a situation that I would term “the messy middle”. A child (4 years old) was referred for an evaluation due to concerns about his behavior (in particular in the area of sensory regulation). Both his parents and preschool teacher were seeing behaviors that were of concern to them. The child was evaluated and an evaluation eligibility meeting was held to review the information. In my opinion, this was not a clear-cut situation in which the child met the criteria and needed special education services. This child has strengths in many different areas and while he is struggling in the preschool setting he is also making gains in other areas. It was a case in which the quality of performance and generalized use of the skills he was asked to demonstrate were of concern. I thought that these areas could be addressed in the preschool setting without special education support. At the same time, there was enough of concern from several team members who felt that special education services were warranted.

Can a Tier 2 (targeted) need be IEP worthy?

I think a Tier 2 need can be IEP worthy but it depends on the degree to which the child is struggling and if the need aligns with his/her disability. Quite often, with the right general education supports, the child can have success within the general education setting.

In what way can a child who is eligible for special education have Tier 1 needs?

A child who is eligible for special education can have Tier 1 needs when they demonstrate splinter skills. A child may show developmentally appropriate skills in one or more areas but struggle in another area. A student who is quite gifted in math but has difficulty with reading or writing may require Tier 1 support. Tier 1 supports may be needed to help the child fill the gaps in reading or writing skill development.

[Diane George]

Peer Response to Mark:

I agree with Mark’s observation that it is not always easy “to tease out what is happening when a student is having difficulty”. This is definitely the messy middle time. It is important to recognize that all children are different, come from different circumstances, and have different learning styles. If a teacher is willing and able to provide different opportunities for the child to have success a special education referral may not be needed.

[Jesse Riesenberger]

I don’t think all tier 3 needs are IEP worthy. There are many reasons a child may have a Tier 3 need and it may not stem from a disability. Or they may have an Tier 3 need that can be addressed within the classroom interventions. A team should evaluate the child’s needs to determine if it is IEP worthy or if an intervention would be appropriate. In that same thinking a Tier 2 need may be IEP worthy. If it is something that is preventing the student from progressing then the team should consider it for an IEP. Again the team would need to evaluate the need.
I think a student that is found eligible for services may have Tier 1 needs, for some students this may be areas that they are struggling with and need to master before they are able to gain a new skill. In this way it would become IEP worthy as it is necessary.

The messy middle seems to be the discussion, it is weeding out what specific skills a child is struggling with and seeing what they need to master that skill. In early childhood I feel like most of our conversation is in the messy middle, most of our information comes from observations at this age so it is really important for the team to share what they see and compare to pinpoint what is going on for that child.

[Jesse Riesenberger]

Peer response to Diane-
I relate to your messy middle example. I typically have a few referrals a year that we see really scattered skills, we refer to them as borderline kids. It feels especially difficult with preschool aged students since we can’t really give them interventions in a classroom, so if they are found ineligible they may not continue to progress and then when they enter kindergarten they are behind. For many of these kids they just need a gen ed preschool classroom but we have limited options for that here.

[Christine Kleinhenz]

Answer the following questions and explain why you feel the way you do:
Are all Tier 3 needs IEP worthy?
Tier three needs are only IEP worthy if we have determined that the lack of using this skill is affecting their learning in some way and that a quick burst of instruction or a change in instruction has not been successful. Even then, we want to look at that tier three need in the entirety of the child to determine how important it is to them that they learn it. So, no. Not all Teir 3 needs are IEP worthy.

How would you define “the messy middle”?
When I think of the Triangle, I think of the child as a whole. I think of each skill as a pinprick on the continuum of that triangle. When I think of the messy middle, I think of all those little pinpricks going all over the place, some being higher than others and as all learning is on some continuum at all times. The messy part is that it is hard to weed through specific skills to identify what is missing and what the child needs support in especially after skills start combining for learning more advanced skills.

Can a Tier 2 (targeted) need be IEP worthy?
Yes. If a Tier 2 need is paired with other needs that as a whole lead to difficulty in learning, the Tier 2 skill could be IEP worthy. It depends on what the needs are, what has been tried and whether specialized instruction needs to happen over a long period of time. Is it a foundational skill that is needed for growth in other areas? Lots of questions need to be answered before knowing if it should be addressed in an IEP.

In what way can a child who is eligible for special education have Tier 1 needs?
There could be underlying factors that keep a child from accessing their skills that need help overcoming. For example, sensory needs, emotional needs, behavioral needs and attention needs. They could also have Tier 1 needs that are foundational skills for other areas of growth that need extra support. zig zag approaches would need to be tried here to determine if a change in style of learning is needed for skill growth as well as discussions with team members.

[Christine Kleinhenz]

I like your response to Tier 1 needs. I agree that a child who meets qualifications for an IEP will have likely have skills on a continuum with possibly all tiers ad that they may require direct instruction on all those skills for growth.

[Sandra Diaz Cross]

Are all Tier 3 needs IEP worthy? I don’t think all Tier 3 needs are IEP worthy. Students who are in the tier 3 of the triangle may need instruction on foundational and prerequisite skills. The same may be true about other students who do not have disabilities. For example, a student, with or without disabilities with behavior challenges, may need individualized instructions on social skills so he/she will be able to access the general education curriculum and classroom routines and activities.

How would you define “the messy middle”? The “messy middle” is when a child or group of children may be struggling or having difficulties in some aspect of learning the set of knowledge and skills that serve as the scope and sequence for children in any state or region, or the common outcome. It may also be when a child or group of children stopped making progress in the learning and development associated with a common outcome. In this situation, the student we will be given support and interventions to get them get caught up or jumpstart their learning and development. It may be that a child is having difficulties learning a small part of a complex skill and just needed that push or support. We follow the MTSS model of support for our struggling students. We collaborate and figure out ways to support our students. It is a good feeling when we are able to find out where the gaps are and target those needs and hopefully see success.

Can a Tier 2 (targeted) need be IEP worthy? Yes, I think a Tier 2 need can be IEP worthy. If the student is struggling and not making progress on a specific skill, goals and objectives can be written using the ABC formula and can be functional, measurable, general, and can be taught across daily activities. However, this does not mean that this student, with a Tier 2 need will automatically qualify for SPED services. On the flip side, I think that a student with an IEP can have a targeted need that can be IEP worthy.

In what way can a child who is eligible for special education have Tier 1 needs? There are several ways a child who is eligible for special education can have Tier 1 needs. For example, a child who has speech and language impairment may have developmental needs in receptive and expressive language, which are common outcomes for all students. This student will need goals and objectives for language arts, science, social studies, and even math to a certain extent. Another example would be a student with learning disability in reading may need support in reading fluency and comprehension that are also common outcomes or tier 1.

[Erin Spooner Meyer]

I like the way you defined the “messy middle”. The word “complex” is a good word to describe the middle. I aso agree with the way you put ownership on the team to figure out how to support the child. It is not up to the child to figure it out. If they could have figured it out on their own, they probably would have.

[Sandra Diaz Cross]

Response to Dawn Fagenstrom

Hi Dawn. I agree that not all tier 3 needs are IEP worthy. There are several factors that can affect student learning which can be addressed without an IEP. I also think that a student with an IEP can be working on a tier 1 because of these factors that make it difficult for them to learn without special education support. Yes, I don’t believe that the messy middle needs to be messy at all. This is where we do interventions and supports to give the students the opportunity to succeed and jumpstart the skills that they are struggling with.

[Rebecca Jones]

STEP 1- Answer the following questions and explain why you feel the way you do: Are all Tier 3 needs IEP worthy? No, I don’t think so. An IEP worthy need would have to be one that is interferring with the child’s progress in school. If they have a need that does not interfere with their progression in school then there would be no need for the IEP. This would have to be an area that is not affecting the child’s academic performace or ability. Usually these needs are shown to be IEP worthy but there are situations and occassions that they are not.
How would you define “the messy middle”? I think the messy middle is a term used for the difficult task of determining why a child is struggling with a certain area. This can be messy to figure out because people are so complex, as is learning and development. It is not always straightforward what the child is missing in their understanding and how to get them to a better place. The reasons behind their actions or lack of actions might also be very difficult to understand and people can often jump to conclusions that are not always true.
Can a Tier 2 (targeted) need be IEP worthy? Yes, any need that a child has that is interfering with their academic progress can be IEP worthy. If the child is showing needs in this area then that is where they need support and they can get that support in the form of an IEP or RTI or whatever the classroom teacher might have as a resource.
In what way can a child who is eligible for special education have Tier 1 needs? The student might be on consult, or might need check ins to support their work in the general education environment. They might need support in the social dynamics or understanding what is being asked and not need a specialized situation other than what the other students are doing, but they might just need some extra support in these settings.

[Jill Winford]

I appreciate your comment. Kids can struggle in lots of different ways and for lots of different reasons. I work at a Title One school in which many students live below the poverty line, are in foster care, have a parent in jail, are exposed to domestic violence, have a parent who is illiterate or unemployed or drug addicted. So many of the kids with whom I work are mis-identified as having a disability when in fact, they are responding in natural and expected ways to trauma. Some kids can have Tier 1 academic skills in most areas but appear to be functioning at a Tier 3 level as the result of the impact of adverse childhood experiences.

[Rebecca Jones]

Hi Mark, I loved your comment:
In what way can a child who is eligible for special education have Tier 1 needs? Abilities in different areas (even in related areas, such reading; vocabulary, fluency, comprehension, etc). Eligible for service in 1 or more areas certainly does not mean that services for all areas are needed. I have had a number of students who have large vocabularies but read so slowly that it seems to impact their comprehension of material read. Others read quite fluently and still comprehension problems (especially true for many “autistic” students.
We cannot label a child as a Tier 1 student or a tier 2 student, but we can certainly differentiate between the child’s needs and abilities in different areas and target those areas that they are lacking in and hopefully acknowledge those areas that they are strong in as well. I appreciate that you brought out that difference. thank you!

[Jill Winford]

No, not all Tier 3 needs are IEP worthy. Not all “Tier 3 needs” are a result of a disability, are having an adverse effect, require specially designed instruction, and are individually appropriate. Some Tier 3 needs will lessen over time as the child naturally develops new skills or simply grows and matures.
The “messy middle” encompasses all those times when students struggle learning a new or complex skill. Sometimes a student’s struggle turns into what an IEP team may determine to be IEP worthy. At other times, the need can be addressed through modifications, accommodations, and teaching.

Yes, a Tier 2 targeted need can be IEP worthy when it has an adverse effect, requires specially designed instruction, and is individually appropriate.

A child who is eligible for special education can have Tier 1 needs in other areas. For example, many students may be eligible for special education in reading, but not in math. I have some students who are fluent, Tier 1 readers, but are eligible for special education because of their inability to comprehend what they read.

[Erin Spooner Meyer]

I really like the idea of kids being triangles. Therefore, I don’t believe all Tier 3 needs are IEP worthy. The needs might be due to a lack of education (excessive absences), just learning English, etc. The needs might also be very specific and able to be taught in isolation quickly. Some tier 3 needs are IEP worthy. This is due to the fact that there should have been a lot of support, time, and effort spent on the child as the lack of progress has been addressed through tier 1 and tier 2 supports too. Therefore, if the student still isn’t making progress, they might need an IEP.

“Messy middle” refers to the time and space in a child’s education where they aren’t making the progress we would expect compared to other typical children. It is a place where teachers and the team should slow down, ask a lot of questions, and be willing to be uncomfortable while the team decides what the next best step is to even out the three legged stool. The “messy middle” is a very important time for me to consider the complexity of skills and patterns. The zig zag process can be used to help guide this process. It is important to figure out the ‘why’ and then the ‘how’ to address the ‘why’.

Yes, a Tier 2 need can be IEP worthy. If the student is not responding to the targeted interventions, the need might be considered on an IEP. I would hope the team would take a lot of time to consider this, as this seems to be a perfect example of the “messy middle”. A student who is eligible for special education may have tier 1 needs also. For example, a student may be very strong academically but have social/emotional needs or be strong in Math but a non reader. Each student is a triangle.

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